Comments?
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.I'd like to hear your comments on this verse (that is if anyone is still checking up on the site). Jesus told His disciples, "if I go not away, the Holy Spirit will not come unto you." If you have an interpretive though then please click 'comments' below.John 16:7
thanks... :)
posted by Miles at
5/11/2006 04:05:00 PM
14 Comments:
The first part of this statement had to be somewhat shocking to His disciples, where he seems to say "Hey, it's to your benefit that I physically leave you guys...permanently."
They must have thought "How can it be to our benefit? You're the Messiah. We need you to help us take over the world. You can't leave us!"
When Jesus came in the flesh, we know that he allowed himself to be limited by the flesh even though He was fully God. For example, we know that he became tired, hungary, and thirsty. He also limited Himself to the boundaries of a 3-dimensional world. That is, He limited himself to being one place at a time. He knew that when He would give Himself in the form of the Holy Spirit He would be able to accomplish so much more.
Through the Holy Spirit, He would dwell in the hearts of all believers, and He would be ever present with them. He would provide confirmation to believers in times of doubt that they truly are sons of God. He would provide the power to live the Christian life and overcome the weaknesses of the flesh. He would through the power of His spirit transform lives into His own image. He would lead believers into truth and protect them from the lies of the devil. He would produce fruitfulness in His followers and equip them for every good work.
He knew he had to go away. It was for their benefit and ours as well. Just my thoughts...
I believe the entire passage is key to understanding Jesus here.
His disciples are sad because Christ has said to them that He is going away, but HE has been teaching on abiding in Him, and wanting His joy to be full in them, even though they are going to suffer severe persecution. Christ knew HE would defeat death, we to, in HIM would be overcomers, as HIS Spirit of truth would infill and lead us into all truth. I love the way the LORD uses imagery to try and communicate the fullness of the Holy Spirit's ministry. He call Him comforter, guide, One who would convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgement. The Holy Spirit will reveal and glorify Christ in and through His people. Even as we His people, who know the indwelling comforter, the Spirit of the living GOD, still to a great extent, this remains a mystery. Receiving and walking in Christ continually requires faith. He remains with HIS people by His Holy Spirit (GOD is ONE)we know and can testify, even as these disciples did, many to the death; "Christ in us the hope of glory."
The boys had to be shocked that there mentor was about to go. After all they have become very close to Jesus during this time, as you do when you are discipled.
Often times we forget as we are caught up in our daily activity's that we are filled with the Holy Spirit which is God and our Lord Jesus Christ, the Trinity. There concept of the Holy Spirit was fully experienced by seeing, walking and talking to Jesus. But they have not experienced the Holy Spirit from with in there hearts guiding them yet. They are used to touching, and seeing our Lord from 2 feet away.
In the same manner that Jesus was to them on earth as there mentor so is the Holy Spirit within our hearts. He still speaks to us, intercedes, testifies, guides, commands, appoints, appoints, reproves, convicts of sin and seals God's promise in our hearts.
He shapes us by us yielding and believing, listening and obeying out of obedience. With out this we would be lost. We would have no guide to direct us in our walk here on earth. Which is a pretty scary thought.
I think of Acts 2 when they experienced the Holy Spirit in His fullness and there experience had to be incredible. So also is that beginning of faith within a person and with the action of being baptized and receiving the Holy Spirit which Peter describes in Acts 2:38-39 is the beginning of eternal life to me walking and talking with God. It is truly experiencing Heaven here on earth.
To Walk in Joy that he loves us so much that He would give us a helper that is truly Him the Lord Jesus Christ and or God.
What they are about to learn is the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ and God the Father!
Craig S
Concerning the attributes of the trinity the Holy Spirit could come on them, with having Jesus just visible next to them. There is no hint in the bible that I could think of, which would exclude to have Jesus walking visible arround you and the Holy Spirit in and upon you. Of course, even Jesus himself was filled with the Holy Spirit after he was babtized by John the Babtist (Matthew 3:16, Luke 4:1).
Now, the reason why the Holy Spirit would not come as long as Jesus was on the earth, must be outside of the nature of the Trinity.
It must have to do something with the ministry of Jesus and of the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Clear is, that Jesus prepared the way for the Holy Spirit to dwell in men (Gal. 3:14). Jesus cleansed us from our sin, so that God Himself in one of the three characters of the trinity could pour Himself into us and seal us as his eternal property (Jeremia 31:33, 1.Kor 1:22, Epheser 4:30b, 2.Kor 5:5).
Sidenote: We know that the Holy Spirit dwells in us and is explicit given to us, but we also know that we dwell in Jesus and He dwells in us (1.John4:13).
All the more: Why then did Jesus claim that He has to go away and do no longer dwell among us as man? Remember - the question is: Why did Jesus had to go in order to send the Spirit?
Jesus did not come to set up a visible Kingdom. He had promised that for later time, which the Father only knows. Now – read carefully: Jesus so departed in order to get – kind of - out of the way. Christians wouldn’t listen to the still, small voice of the Holy Spirit, if they would still see Him visible. Most probably everyone who started to fall in love with Jesus at one or another time, wanted to make Jesus an earthly King: The people of Jerusalem - right before the last Passah. The disciples - at latest since they realized who He really was.
Jesus knew that we would need to wait with patience in order to listen to what the Holy Spirit tells us – even if it would become our (normally) only direct contact source to Him. How would men ever pay attention to the Holy Spirit’s direction and the work He want’s to accomplish, if Jesus would be still arround visible.
Now, as the father wanted to give His Glory and Honor to the Son (John 5:23 + 14:26 + 15:26, 2.Peter 1:17) he had to remove Jesus from the earth, in order to give men a surrounding in which they would be able to worship with all their heart and experience the full richness fellowship with Him.
Through faith that would be born and without sight, the son would be glorified the most. That was already proved before Jesus came to this earth: Romans 4:20. Check out romans 5:2b: That can be you!! (remember the hall of faith: Heb.11)
Faith blesses the heart while sight never will be able to drive your roots deep.
Here a short Reference-row to see the logic flow: John 14:26, Romans 10:17, Romans 5:2.
Jesus Himself never glorified Himself, but glorified the Father (e.g. John 17:1). Now the father want’s to glorify the son in a major way. To enable us on earth to worship the Son in Spirit and in truth, we just need the Holy Spirit who put the gift of faith in us (&many other gifts like He wills).
After all it’s a decision of the Father, to remove the son from the earth in order to work deeper through the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps now it’s more clear why Jesus also said:
Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
John 20:29
It was the sweetness and security of fellowship, He was talking about.
God decided to bring this sweetness into our hearts by removing sight and putting faith in us. I can imagine, that we also would have made Jesus’s dwelling place on earth a big deal and everything that would relate physically to Him.
Would the disciples ever have left Israel? Would the Gospel ever have been spread as far as it did? We still have so many places to reach.
It’s so good that we do no longer depend on a geographic issue as long as the World has to be reached according to His great comission.
"You're actually going to benefit by My leaving."
With Jesus here, He was the One with the Holy Spirit indwelling Him fully. The Spirit was not able to be given because Jesus was not yet glorified(Jn. 7:39). And Jesus had told His diciples that they would do mightier things than even He did. The only way that was possible for them to do that was in the power of and by the Person of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was referred to as 'Immanuel', God with us. Yes Here He was with us, but as Jesus also said, He would be in us and come upon us. God created us to 'tabernacle' with us, within us. The Spirit was to be given again, to all who would repent and believe. And for this to take place, Jesus had to go.
It's a hard question, and there have been some good reasponses in this post so far, but I'm still confused with it =).
As I read through some of the the responses above, I got the impression that some explanations were simply reiterating the fact that Jesus DID need to go in order for the Holy Spirit to come, but not necessarily WHY. In other responses, there have been some attempts at explaining WHY, but I'm not able to connect the dots yet =). Of course, I guess the easiest answer is, "Jesus said so, so THAT'S WHY." =) I am unable at this time to find a better answer.
Josh wrote: "And Jesus had told His diciples that they would do mightier things than even He did. The only way that was possible for them to do that was in the power of and by the Person of the Holy Spirit."
I'm not sure this must necessarily be the case. If we take the simple "God can do anything" approach, Jesus wouldn't necessarily need to go away for our works to be mightier than His. If God wanted it that way, He could make it that way even with Jesus present.
Christof wrote: "Would the disciples ever have left Israel? Would the Gospel ever have been spread as far as it did?"
I guess the answer would be "yes." It was Jesus' intention that we go into all the earth and preach the gospel to every creature. Again, we can take the "God can do anything" approach on this. If Jesus wanted us to do this, while still on the earth, yes, we would have done it.
So, I'm not sure. I'm gonna' look into it a little bit, but really, so far, the only solid reason I have for understanding why this was necessary is because Jesus said it was.
i dont know how to work this...i am going to need your help :) love you with my whole heart. arent you impressed i even got a blogger started!
I'm with Christoph. The best answer to this question has two parts:
1. Jesus had to go away so that the Holy Spirit's ministry would not be hindered by our looking to a physical person to lead and guide us. As long as Jesus was around it would have been difficult for the disciples to follow the Holy Spirit's leading (though we do see Peter being ministered to by the Holy Spirit when he proclaims Jesus to be the Christ, the Son of the God).
2. Jesus had to leave to get it into his disciples' heads that his was not an earthly kingdom (at least not yet). There was much talk when Jesus was around that he, being so great a prophet and likely the Messiah, would free them from the domination of the Romans and create another kingdom of Israel. But everything that Jesus was teaching them (emphasized in these several chapters of John) pointed towards a heavenly kingdom, not dependent on the physical.
Thus, with Jesus gone the Holy Spirit could fulfill his full ministry to the saints: 1. leading us through our every day decisions, learning to walk in the way of Christ; 2. teaching us of the heavenly kingdom and emphasizing the preaching of the gospel to all nations, regardless of physical cost.
David K.
Thanks David for your clear answer. You were able to present clearly what I tried to explain with many words.
So, everybody - forget my massy commment, stick with David's :-D
God bless all you guys!!!
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Well put David and Chris!
So would we be as convicted and truly change without the Holy Spirit in our lives?
I believe that the Lord desires to see us desire to become like Him. Like a father does for his child. A father also helps his child to correct the areas with love what the child may be doing wrong. So also the Holy Spirit is coming in the Lords place to help us as a helper to teach us what we are doing wrong, and to lead us in the right direction just like a father would.
The only way to follow Him is to abandon our own thoughts and rights and the only way to understand and follow Him is through the Holy Spirit.
Craigs
Well put David and Chris!
So would we be as convicted and truly change without the Holy Spirit in our lives?
I believe that the Lord desires to see us desire to become like Him. Like a father does for his child. A father also helps his child to correct the areas with love what the child may be doing wrong. So also the Holy Spirit is coming in the Lords place to help us as a helper to teach us what we are doing wrong, and to lead us in the right direction just like a father would.
The only way to follow Him is to abandon our own thoughts and rights and the only way to understand and follow Him is through the Holy Spirit.
Craigs
Well put David and Chris!
So would we be as convicted and truly change without the Holy Spirit in our lives?
I believe that the Lord desires to see us desire to become like Him. Like a father does for his child. A father also helps his child to correct the areas with love what the child may be doing wrong. So also the Holy Spirit is coming in the Lords place to help us as a helper to teach us what we are doing wrong, and to lead us in the right direction just like a father would.
The only way to follow Him is to abandon our own thoughts and rights and the only way to understand and follow Him is through the Holy Spirit.
Craigs
Well put David and Chris!
So would we be as convicted and truly change without the Holy Spirit in our lives?
I believe that the Lord desires to see us desire to become like Him. Like a father does for his child. A father also helps his child to correct the areas with love what the child may be doing wrong. So also the Holy Spirit is coming in the Lords place to help us as a helper to teach us what we are doing wrong, and to lead us in the right direction just like a father would.
The only way to follow Him is to abandon our own thoughts and rights and the only way to understand and follow Him is through the Holy Spirit.
Craigs
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